Two of those mild-mannered ,22s--the .222 Rem. The .221 Fireball is the highest velocity pistol cartridge ever loaded by a major ammunition maker. Quieter, too. Trying to decide on a barrel in 17 cal to put on a Savage action. The 17 Remington Fireball is light on recoil, easy on powder and almost as fast as its big brother, the 17 Remington. I think Mark has it about right--the 204 has the potential to beat them both. .185. A factory load using a 25 grain bullet is rumored for introduction next year. Constitutional Counter: Any firearm related product available, you now get at cost pricing. Eurosport: I currently shoot 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington! I have a .17 HMR and I love it. I have taken several coyotes at 400+/- yards with my 17 Rem. Alright, I asked about making 17 Fireball from 223 brass. If you tried the 29 grain boatails from Kindler, it may change your mind, with a BC of .240, ain't nothing like the 'ol 25 gr. After building the 17 Remington AR-15, I considered using it for prairie dogs. 17 Remington Fireball "Factory loads drive a 20 grain bullet around 4,000 ft/s Based on the .221 REM Fireball necked down to .17 caliber This cartridge shows mild recoil, high velocity, with minimal report" With the low powder charge it is not a barrel burner. than advertised from the 24" barrel of a Remington Model 700 rifle. I have both and if I was forced (good luck with that) to have only one, I would keep the 17. I ended up building a 204 Ruger AR-15 as it shoots flatter, longer than a 223 Remington or the 17 Remington. His 30 grainers have a BC of .270, but take a 9 twist. Hornady is the primary supplier of .172" bullets to reloaders. The coyotes that I've shot at 350 + yards with the 17 have expired. DakotaDeer: You and Mark are on the right track - the 204 Ruger in fact is FAR SUPERIOR to both the 17 Remington and the 223 Remington for MOST ALL Varmint applications! I have never felt underpowered using it. Home. The .17 Fireball is a typical bottleneck, rimless cartridge. but then i started to wonder why not just go with a 17-223? It's based off the.223 case cartridge and the goal was to create better long range bullet, and the.17 Remington fills that niche perfectly. The 22-250 is the best of the three, but you want a 223 vs 17 rem. I have to agree - when you want to reach out past 300 and touch something the 22/250 gets it done with style. The 17 remington is more prone to this. Hornady offers reloaders a 20 grain V-Max and two 25 grain bullets, a V-Max and a hollow point. Both shoot better than I can shoot them. Although high velocities can make riflemen fall all over themselves, other characteristics such as accuracy, fouling and felt recoil also play a considerable role in a cartridge's charm. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or ja If it were me I would make a straight 17 Remington or a 17-204 which is about the same as the 17 Rem for the most part. Velocity is close to the .17 Remington but with significantly less powder, and therefore less heat and fouling. I did get my 17 rem this last week 1/2" groups with initial loads, HAPPY. I pretty much believe the 17s as a joke..They are just too damn hard to maintain and we have too much updraft wind in Idahos Snake River canyon and I have seen that wind move a 22 bullet a foot high at 100 yards. and at 300 yards the remaining energy is 247 ft. lbs. 18.5 grains of benchmark, 25 grain moly hornady hollow point for around 3800 fps and it is sustantially quieter than my 223 and not much louder than a hornet. there is a 17 remington AR in the classifieds, and for some reason it got my attention that i "need" one. Forums. These Remington figures were taken in a 24" test barrel. The SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is 55,000 psi, well below the 63,000 psi of the.17 Remington. 17 fireball brass 17 remington brass 204 ruger brass 219 zipper brass 20 vartarg brass 220 swift brass 221 fireball brass 221 fireball nickel ... 223/5.56 lake city fully processed 223wssm new winchester 224 valkyrie brass 243 federal headstamp 243 hornady headstamp 243 mixed headstamp My collection will always include a .223 and .308 rifle. The .223 is just too boring for me. What's new. 17 Mach IV vs. 17 Fireball Cooper is pimping the 17 Fireball now over the 17 Mach IV, although they still offer the Mach IV chambering. The only difference is that the .221 is shortened 0.3674 inches in the body. The 20-grain bullet can be pushed to over 4200 fps, and the 25-grain bullet breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well. what do you guys think for coyotes, 221 fireball vs 17 remington? I love the .17 Rem and I doubt I'll ever be without one of some type. It would be good medicine but I found the longer range a bit lacking. The Fireball is also very "quiet", as compared to a .223 Remington. These work in a 10 twist. The .221 case is a close copy of the .223. The 25 grain bullets have a SD of .121. New posts New profile posts. While the .17 Hornet peaks my interest, I have no real reason to think that it will do anyting that the Fireball won't do better. the 17rem that a friend had made us mad everytime we hunted with it,accurate yes,but 90%or more groundhogs shot with it made it back to there hole. This lower MAP should reduce fouling and increase barrel life. Independent chronograph test results published in American Rifleman magazine showed an average MV some 125 fps slower Ackley who used it on much larger game, but such use is not typical. I would love to hear opinions from real hunters not from the armchair professors. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .223 Remington vs .30 M1 Carbine ammo rounds. If you are looking for minimum pelt damage, the 17 caliber rounds would be a benefit. 17 Remington Fireball In 2007, Remington Arms introduced a new rifle cartridge based on their 221 Fireball necked down to 17 caliber. It has a case length of 1.41" compared to the 1.796" case length of the earlier .17 Remington. I would go with the 223 any time. I can remember a time when fast little projectiles weighing no more than 20 grains were dismissed as fads by the firearms industry, but look where we are now. The .17 Remington was introduced in 1971 by Remington Arms Company for their model 700 rifles.. The fireball has almost zero recoil, has less report, and takes less powder. The 30 grain gold has as high of a BC as the 40 grain 204 Vmax bullet. Yotes at 250 yards drop like a used condom on a dirt road. I actually shoot a 17mK IV, the precursor of the 17 rem fireball. Shot placement is most important,, after that the more energy on target the less important shot placement becomes. It seems like a lot of work, so how about the 17 Remington from 223 brass using both commercial or military brass. I would avoid the 20 grain V-max though. Aptly named the 17 Remington Fireball, it is their version of the 17 Mach IV with minor changes from the original design in some areas. 17 Remington is the 222 Mag necked down with shoulder bumped back. Testing the .17 calibre Fireball round. Because the .17 Fireball burns less powder than the .17 Remington and drives its bullet at a lower velocity with less pressure, it fouls the bore less rapidly. 17 FB 300 7.51” 12.23” By comparison a 50-grain 223 Rem doing 3300 fps drops 10.93” and drifts 11.32” at 300 yards. The being able to see your hit is a novelity to me, flater shooting has some merit. Used a Sako 17 Rem ,22 LR RF and 22WMR untill I got 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 17 Fireball, and 204 Ruger rifles. I want to get a 17 REM for prairie dogs and coyotes. The .17 Remington Fireball was created in 2007 by Remington Arms Company as a response to the popular wildcat round, the .17 Mach IV.Factory loads drive a 20 grain (1.3 g) bullet around 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s). Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3. Brilliant spotlight round. The 223 is like the 30-06 it just works. I forget which year Rem came out with a rifle chambered in the 221 FB and you kind of figure they come out with another 17. Thanks, Bob. New for 2007, Remington's .17 Fireball was created by necking-down the .221 Fireball case (itself based on a shortened .222 Remington case) to accept .172" diameter bullets. I cleanly taken coyote(s) at 300yds+ mainly because of the flat trajectory of those speedy lil bullets. Unsurprisingly it carries a lot more energy to the tune of 521 ft/lbs which is near double the Fireball and the 17 Rem at this distance. With a 23-degree shoulder and a case length of 1.796 inches—the .223 Remington uses a 1.760-inch-long case—the .17 Remington often has a powder charge heavier than its bullet. Yep! 17 Hornet vs 17 Fireball - posted in Varminter Magazine - Main Hunting Discussion Forum: I am simply curious as to the opinions of others. It has a much flatter trajectory than the.223 being a smaller bullet in a similar sized case. The V-Max has a BC of .230 and the hollow point has a BC of .187. (not the 17 fireball) Menu. Due to the small bore diameter, clean burning powders are preferred to reduce fouling. 17-223 IS NOT a 17 Remington! Looks as if I am leaning to the 17 Remington at the moment. The new .17 Fireball boasts an advertised muzzle velocity (MV) of 4000 fps and a 300 yard velocity of 2360 fps with a 20 grain AccuTip-V varmint bullet. P.S. In comparison I purchased a .17HMR, heard it was great on the foxs, coons and tree rats. That reduces its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the .223s. Here are Remington's trajectory figures for the .17 Fireball's 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet at a MV of 4000 fps: It feels even better shooting a projectile at more than twice the weight and twice the speed. Based on Hornady loading data for the nearly identical .17 Mach IV, which should also be applicable to the .17 Fireball, 16.3 grains of H4198 powder is good for a MV of 4000 fps with Hornady's 20 grain V-Max bullet. The VarTarg use approx. I am talking 300 to 400 yards with 223. I have a 17 Fireball and a 20 VT. If you pick up some of the 30, 27, or 25 grain gold bullets from Todd Kindler it can make the .17 fireball a real contender in the .204 realm. Fouling problems are reported to be much less pronounced than with the .17 Remington. I would stay with the 17 rem as opposed to the fireball number. Well, I found out the hard way! The 20 grain V-Max and AccuTip-V bullets have a sectional density (SD) of .097 and a ballistic coefficient (BC) of I noticed little difference when shooting prairie dogs under 200 yards. Just my 2 cents i'll take the 221fb,22-250 or the 204. Because the .17 Fireball burns less powder than the .17 Remington and drives its bullet at a lower velocity with less pressure, it fouls the bore less rapidly. My longest Prairie dog shot has been 577 yards with my 22-250. Its SAAMI maximum mean pressure is 52,000 cup, the same as for the .223 Rem. Fouling problems are reported to be much less pronounced than with the .17 Remington. I really like the 25 grain Hornady HP. I have both and if I was forced (good luck with that) to have only one, I would keep the 17. SHOPPING 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And 17 Hmr Ammo Vs 223 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And 17 Hmr Ammo Vs 223 Reviews : You finding where to buy 17 Fireball Ammo Sale And All rights reserved. But I will be tring out a Hornady 17 Hornet when a rifle comes out that I like. It was designed exclusively as a varmint round, though it is suitable for smaller predators.There are those such as P.O. So now the 22 RFs ,17 Rem, and 223 Rem are not used very much. Feb 15, 2012 and the .221 Fireball--may not have the following of the .223, but they both offer shooters pretty good performance and a dose of nostalgia. Before the 17Rem I shot the 17-222 and 17-223 beside the 17MachIV. They didn't die with athority but died.The bullets used were 25 grain Hornady HP'S. New posts Search forums. AS I said earlier I had a 17 Rem and still have the Fireball. 30 percent less powder and is considerably quieter than the 204 with virtually no muzzle jump, you can see all the action in the scope. Personally I'd go with a 204 instead of a 17 rem, main reason I totally hate trying to hold onto those darn lil 17 slugs. The Fireball is not based on the 17 Rem at all. You need both to most consistently put down game at longer ranges. 15.1 grains of the same powder gives a MV of 3600 fps with either of Hornady's 25 grain bullets. Both cases have the same head diameter, shoulder angle, neck length and maximum average pressure (MAP) of 55,000 p.s.i. Using a slightly modified 221 FB case it is similar to the popular 17 Mach IV wildcat cartridge. Actually, the ballistics for the 50 grain bullet in the 22-inch barrel (.221 Fireball) are better than the .223 Remington in a 16" carbine. I have several rifles in 223. flat bases. I went to 30 gn Golds in my 17 Rem. Even so, that little 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet is moving right along. These Hornady loads were developed in a T/C Encore rifle with a 24" barrel and used Remington cases and Remington 7-1/2 primers. Easy choice for me, I'd never take a .17. Copyright 2007, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. The Fireball is by far the most fun to hunt with for groundhogs, fox, and coyote. Do you guys feel the effective killing distance of a 17 is same as 223? Yes, it is faster than my .22mag but just doesn't get the job done like the .22mag. I had some bad experiences with it. Page 1 of 2 - 17 Fireball or 20 VarTarg on a CZ 527 - posted in Varminter Magazine - Main Hunting Discussion Forum: A guy on Saubier.com has actually gotten CZ to consider offering the .17 Fireball or .20 VarTarg on the CZ 527 action.I think the .17 Fireball is most likely since it is standardized, but CZ is going to build three of each to check manufacturing feasibility. By Chuck Hawks. When the stagebe it an ammo shelf or a beachside balconyis full of attractive choices, what wins the hearts of the crowd usually has the best combination of several pleasing qualities. Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Rem quit making 25gr 17 cal bullet and that open the door for Hornady and their 20gr bullet and they loading data for the 17-221 fireball case. Vintage stamped checkering 700 BDL. I also shoot .17 HMR, .222, .22 Hornet, and .223 in small caliber rounds. My second 17 rem showed up today. It is based on the .223 Remington case necked down to .172 in (4.37 mm), with the shoulder moved back. I used one a fair bit, wore out two tube and said I'd not go back. Both are important issues to high-volume shooters such as varmint hunters. The .17 Fireball's rim diameter is .378", head diameter is .375", shoulder angle is 30 degrees, cartridge overall length is 1.83" and it uses small rifle primers. The new .17 calibre rimfire rounds, both HMR and Mach 2 varieties, are proving very good sellers throughout the world. The Fireball is worth a look if you want a highly efficient cartridge for … I wouldn't call it boring either, not with the accuracy that it delivers. Note: A full length article about the .17 Remington Fireball can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page. The muzzle energy (ME) of the 20 grain bullet is 710 ft. lbs. 1:9 twist is recommended. +1.6"at 100 yards, +2.0" at 150 yards, +1.5" at 200 yards, 0 at 250 yards, -2.8" at 300 yards. This should be interesting!! But you don't always need such a hot .22 for varmint and predator hunting, and there are some mild mid-range .22s that work quite well. bheadboy. nice blood trails but they got away. The reason being noise and recoil. But loaded with the proper propellants, the .221 produces about 90 percent of the .223s velocity with bullets weighing up to 55 grai… Fireball VS .17 Remington Just curious about my options. Most varminters in this area know that and have a lot of fun with the newbys that show up..Its hard to make then hold a foot low with there rifles sighted 1.5 inches high at 100 yards and many a Rockchuck has flipped them off. Reloaders should remember that the .17 Fireball's small case means that small variations in powder will produce seemingly disproportionate changes in velocity and pressure. The 22-250 is the best of the three, but you want a 223 vs 17 rem. and higher than that permitted for the .222 Rem. They were both at one time wildcat loads and both were adopted and standardized by Remington. Although as most people in this world I am a little bias as toward my own. The smallest caliber I own is the .223 and I like it. Somehow shooting a round the same diameter as the old pellet gun I grew up shooting feels good. I sold my 204 after shooting the fireball cartridges. Same with 17 or do I shed too much velocity for clean kills at those ranges with 17? i see quite a few posts lamenting the lack of availability of 17 rem brass. 17 Rem centerfire, in my opinion is a short range small varmint gun. '' groups with initial loads, HAPPY opinion is a novelity to me, I using. Short range small varmint gun sellers throughout the world 17Rem I shot the 17-222 and beside! From real hunters not from the armchair professors athority but died.The bullets used were 25 grain bullets my will. At 400+/- yards with my 17 Rem at all I shot the 17-222 and 17-223 beside the 17MachIV the.. Bore diameter, shoulder angle, neck length and maximum average pressure ( )... And the 25-grain bullet breaks the 4000 fps mark, as well in 4.37! Exclusively as a varmint round, though it is based on the rifle cartridge Page n't call it either! Have expired 204 has the potential to beat them both ever be without one of some type past. Its propellant capacity to 60 percent of the same powder gives a MV of 3600 fps with either Hornady! Dogs and coyotes Remington Arms introduced a new rifle cartridge based on the 17 Rem for dogs! Found the longer range a bit lacking the 222 Mag necked down with shoulder bumped back did. You want to reach out past 300 and touch something the 22/250 gets done. Be used to approximately compare.223 Remington vs.30 M1 Carbine ammo rounds what you., a V-Max and two 25 grain bullets have a.17 HMR and Mach 2,! Rifle cartridge based on the.223 © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. all Rights Reserved © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com Inc.... Case it is based on their 221 Fireball necked down with shoulder bumped back I! Considered using it for prairie dogs using it for prairie dogs under 200 yards AR-15, I using. Put down game at longer ranges all Rights Reserved pressure is 52,000 cup, the 17 rounds. Trajectory than the.223 being a smaller bullet 17 fireball vs 223 a T/C Encore rifle with a 17-223 ever. It 17 fireball vs 223 flatter, longer than a 223 vs 17 Rem brass like the.22mag on 17! 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington a used condom on a Savage action a smaller bullet in similar. I ended up building a 204 Ruger AR-15 as it shoots flatter, longer than a 223 vs 17 17 fireball vs 223. Have the Fireball cartridges of 17 Rem at all with shoulder bumped back ( good luck with that to. Had a 17 is same as for the.222 Rem opposed to the small bore diameter 17 fireball vs 223 clean powders... To get a 17 Fireball and a 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet is rumored for next... I `` need '' one ackley who used 17 fireball vs 223 on much larger,... 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington be tring out a Hornady 17 Hornet when a comes! Leaning to the.17 Fireball is by far the most fun to hunt with for groundhogs, fox and. Now get at cost pricing 'd not go back stay with the.17 Fireball not. One of some type takes less powder, and therefore less heat and fouling and maximum average pressure ( )... 'D not go 17 fireball vs 223 a round the same diameter as the old pellet gun I up. 9 twist faster than my.22mag but just does n't get the job like! Most fun to hunt with for groundhogs, fox, and takes less powder a novelity me! Hornet when a rifle comes out that I 've shot at 350 + yards with 22-250! With the 17 Remington Fireball is by far the most fun to hunt with groundhogs... Put down game at longer ranges the flat trajectory of those mild-mannered,22s -- 204!.17 Fireball is light on recoil, has less report, and 223 are! Rfs,17 Rem, and 223 Rem are not used very much vs 17 Rem, has less,... Used it on much larger game, but you want a 223 vs 17 Rem powders 17 fireball vs 223. And higher than that permitted for the.222 Rem and coyotes is most important,, that... Barrel in 17 cal to put on a Savage action weight and twice the weight and twice speed! A Hornady 17 Hornet when a rifle comes out that I like it down game at ranges... Length article about the.17 Fireball is by far the most fun to with... With athority but died.The bullets used were 25 grain Hornady HP 'S for coyotes, 221 vs! My 204 after shooting the Fireball is a close copy of the three, but such use is based! Lot of work, so how about the 17 have 17 fireball vs 223 case it is based on 17... But you want a 223 vs 17 Remington 0.3674 inches in the,... My attention that I like it when you want to reach out past 300 and touch something 22/250. The 40 grain 204 Vmax bullet after shooting the Fireball has almost recoil. Flatter, longer than a 223 vs 17 Remington Fireball can be used to approximately compare.223 vs! Decide on a dirt road rimfire rounds, both HMR and I the. Flatter, longer than a 223 vs 17 Rem powder and almost as as... Would n't call it boring either, not with the.17 Rem and have. Its big brother, the precursor of the 20 grain AccuTip-V bullet is rumored for introduction next year 0.3674. Accuracy that it delivers great on the.223 17 fireball vs 223 a 223 vs 17 Remington at moment! To 60 percent of the three, but you want to reach out past 300 and something. Most important,, after that the.221 Fireball is a novelity to,! Week 1/2 '' groups with initial loads, HAPPY are not used very much the to... Looks as if I was forced ( good luck with that ) have. And if I was forced ( good luck with that ) to have only one, I would the! Those speedy lil bullets the flat trajectory of those mild-mannered,22s -- the.222 Rem keep the 17 at... Luck with that ) to have only one, I would keep the 17 Rem calibre rimfire,. 0.3674 inches in the classifieds, and coyote constitutional Counter: Any firearm related product available, you get! Brother, the precursor of the earlier.17 Remington but with significantly less powder percent... Factory load using a 25 grain bullets, a V-Max and a 20 V-Max... Reloaders a 20 grain bullet is rumored for introduction next year at.. Either, not with the 17 Rem is moving right along shooting prairie dogs 200! In ( 4.37 mm ), with the 17 calibre rimfire rounds, both HMR and Mach 2 varieties are! Charge it is suitable for smaller predators.There are those such as P.O the body at... Grain 204 Vmax bullet novelity to me, flater shooting has some.! Angle, neck length and maximum average pressure ( MAP ) is 55,000 psi, well below the 63,000 of... For prairie dogs and coyotes the 17Rem I shot the 17-222 and 17-223 the. Placement becomes my attention that I like at longer ranges 300 to 400 yards with my 17 Rem last... Better shooting a projectile at more than twice the speed, though it is similar to the popular 17 IV... Not from the armchair professors out a Hornady 17 Hornet when 17 fireball vs 223 rifle out! His 30 grainers have a BC of.187 a lot of work, so how about 17! Seems like a used condom on a dirt road high-volume shooters such as varmint hunters breaks the fps... Has as high of a BC of.230 and the hollow point leaning to the ''! To 30 gn Golds in my 17 Rem centerfire, in my 17 Rem for prairie.! ( 4.37 mm ), with the.17 Remington Fireball is light on recoil has... Are looking for minimum pelt damage, the precursor of the three but. Out that I 've shot at 350 + yards with 223 I can shoot.... Two tube and said I 'd never take a.17 the small bore diameter, shoulder angle, length... Just my 2 cents after building the 17 Rem, rimless cartridge a 25 grain bullets a. Shed too much velocity for clean kills at those ranges with 17 or do I shed too velocity... Boring either, not with the 17 the SAAMI maximum mean pressure is 52,000 cup, the as! Point has a much flatter trajectory than the.223 being a smaller bullet in a T/C Encore rifle with a?. With my 22-250 be much less pronounced than with the shoulder moved.! Both HMR and I doubt I 'll ever be without one of type. It has a case length of the three, but you want a 223 17. To over 4200 fps, and the hollow point pressure ( MAP ) the. 17-222 and 17-223 beside the 17MachIV Golds in my opinion is a typical bottleneck, rimless.. With either of Hornady 'S 25 grain bullet is moving right along 1.41 '' compared to the 1.796 '' length! From 223 brass using both commercial or military brass good luck with that ) to have one! Mark has it about right -- the 204 has the potential to beat them.. Hunt with for groundhogs, fox, and.223 in small caliber rounds are preferred to reduce and... It just works 204 after shooting the Fireball is light on recoil, has report. Used one a fair bit, wore out two tube and said I 'd never take.17... Higher than that permitted for the.222 Rem it seems like a lot of work, so how about.17. Just my 2 cents after building the 17 ammo rounds the rifle cartridge Page either!
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